Question For Pickup Trucks 

"UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy" (smithtaylorm) 07/02/2018 at 08:15 • Filed to: None

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Why isn’t there much in the way of trying to electrify them?

I was having a discussion with a coworker a while back, and we were talking about how even now some trucks, like the Colorado and Tacoma, are equipped with v6’s that aren’t the most efficient in the world for what they do (16/18, and 19/24).

Now my education is in chemical engineering so I’m not well versed/have no experience in the automotive engineering sphere, so I can only pose the question. Why couldn’t you do a electric/turbo 4 combination? With turbos, you get the torque and then maybe electric motors at the wheels or just a hybrid setup would make up for the loss or torque at the low end to still maintain payload but increase efficiency.

Is there a reason why this wouldn’t work? I know there are a few knowledgeable auto industry people on here who could shed some light.

For your time

nermal > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 08:27

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....but they are. Ram has a mild-hybrid system for their new 1500s. Tesla is “working” on an all-electric “truck”.

I think that we will see more electrification over time in the 1500 trucks, but it’s gonna be a while before it hits the HDs.

Overall it’s a business decision. As long as manufacturers can basically print money selling trucks with V8s and gas-guzzling turbo V6s, they will continue to do so.

itschrome > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 08:28

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Mostly I would think it has to do with the stubborn nature of the crowd that buys them to reject the idea of hybrids/electric Vehicles .

I was just having this conversation with a friend though the other day. Why not a hybrid truck? all that glorious tor que down low to get things moving off a line. I can’t image this would be bad in a towing situation.

Spanfeller is a twat > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 08:30

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complexity, and cost drive those options a back and also the fact that the average pickup owner thinks electric cars are just golf carts. 

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 08:43

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I always thought it was the complexity of getting a power split device that would handle the torque required to tow anything, plus having a battery big enough so you could use the hybrid power to tow without getting stuck halfway up a hill on ICE power and also a lack of demand.

I imagine future hybrids trucks  will be diesel electric type deals

MultiplaOrgasms > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 08:44

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A Hybrid system increases the unladen weight, and thus negatively affects the GVWR, which is a thing that matters to certain types of truck buying people.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 08:49

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Probably because electric motors are expensive, so now you’re adding even more cost to our already expensive pickups. It makes sense performance wise but probably not when looking at  cost or manufacturing

Tekamul > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 08:53

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The complexity bumps the cost. The cost drives away buyers. Companies tried in the past, and they failed in the market. There was a Silverado from ‘03-’09(?). They sold few.

They are trying again, though. Ford has a hybrid F150 coming in 2020. Ram has one for 2019 , I believe . The truck market wasn’t ready yet, and still may not be.

M.T. Blake > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 09:17

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First you take away the Super Size meal. Then you begin replacing V8s with turbo V6s in pickup trucks. Now you want to turn my beloved American pickup into an RC car? We’re moving too fast here people. I want my tools motivated by the same substance they’ve always enjoyed, discarded Dinos. 

404 - User No Longer Available > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 09:21

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Via Trux is still around.

https://www.viamotors.com/electric-vehicles.html

HammerheadFistpunch > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 10:09

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Batteries aren’t ready for ev trucks. At least I don’t think so, plus what people want in a truck isn’t likely to be found in an ev truck.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/tesla-truck-yeah-but-why-1827214929

Torque fill and  mild hybrid trucks have existed and are coming again. You can buy a Wrangler right now with the turbo 4 hybrid setup you're taking about. Turns out it doesn't pay for itself in fuel saving and may ending up costing more to drive.  The trouble in pickup efficiency isn't motors, it's the truck itself.

Quadradeuce > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 10:12

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Fleet managers and business owners don't want the complexity of a hybrid.  And your average pavement princess truck buyer doesn't give a rip about fuel economy.

DipodomysDeserti > M.T. Blake 07/02/2018 at 10:45

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If you tell people like this that you also have to rape the earth to make batteries, and that Mooslims don’t have any battery reserves, you may get them to buy in.

Roundbadge > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 10:53

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This reminds me of when Chevy started spitballing hybrid trucks and SUVs, stating that it makes more sense to improve the mileage of the big inefficient vehicles (improving from 10 MPG to 20 MPG saves more gas than improving from 20 MPG to 30 MPG), and then they were roundly shouted down.  This would’ve been around 2010, I’m guessing.

AfromanGTO > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 11:42

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There’s been a few EV trucks. There was an EV Ranger that Ford did in the early 2000s. 

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 12:13

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I think a lot of it has to do with the perceived (and real) ease and cost of maintenance with an ICE. If a battery pack or electric motor fails, it’s going to be harder to replace than a V8 with wide operating tolerances. There’s still resistance to the turbo 6s for the same reason.

M.T. Blake > DipodomysDeserti 07/02/2018 at 12:13

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It isn’t rape. It’s prostitution. That is already legal in Nevada. And Nevada is a desert... many Muslims live in a... desert... MIND BLOWN!!!

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 12:30

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You have it backward. Electric motors have more torque and it’s instant torque.

I have long wanted to build a hybrid KO H vehicle that has electric drive motors outboard on four independent arms (the rears with a 2- or 3-speed gearbox for when you’re switching to the fast sections where you only need 2wd, transitioning automatically above a given speed ) and a diesel generator that provides power for the motors (since a battery that would get you that far would need to be huge/heavy)...

Yeah, I know , I’m crazy.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > M.T. Blake 07/02/2018 at 12:32

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And here I am thinking, “I’d rather get rid of these stupid fossil fuel consumers, electric trucks would be so much better”.

Embrace the instant torque.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 07/02/2018 at 12:35

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Yeah, I think diesel-electric without any weird power split device like the little hybrids will be the ticket. See my response to this post for further thoughts.

It’s good enough for practically every non-novelty locomotive, so I’m sure it would be great for a pickup.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 07/02/2018 at 12:37

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Motors are small and light in comparison. I’d rather have two (front/rear) or four electric motors, a smaller battery pack,  and a small, highly-optimized, diesel generator.

HammerheadFistpunch > AfromanGTO 07/02/2018 at 12:41

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D eDion suspension on a pickup. Strange times they were.

jasmits > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 12:46

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So pure electric doesn’t make much sense because even though people use them for commuting no one buys it as only a commuter, they buy them for trips etc where the range equation won’t work out. Even when used for work trucks where it could maybe make sense , the flexibility loss of needing to plan jobs around charging and the risk of having your tool not ready when you need it means pure electric isn’t going to happen any time soon . That Ranger EV was mostly a proof of concept and an easy platform with the payload and simplicity for Ford to easily slot in batteries and an electric motor as a proof of concept. 

As for hybrid systems, they’re starting to show up in full-size trucks like the Ram . They haven’t started showing up in m idsize yet but that’s probably because the margins aren’t as high and the competition isn’t as stiff in the midsize market so less is going to be invested and the refresh cycle is longer. A lso a lot of buyers are after a simple, capable and dependable vehicle which is a good fit for the NA V6s found in the Taco and Coloyon. That said, a mild hybrid system could make a lot of sense off road so I bet something like the one the Wrangler’s getting will show up on the next refreshes. 

Gerry197 > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 12:47

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Ford’s working on a hybrid F150 for the next generation.

Also, the most popular spec of F150 is rated up to 20/26 mpg for gas and we already have full size diesels at 29 mpg highway. The se are giant trucks with big tow ratings, makes you wonder why smaller trucks aren’t doing better.

But the other issue is that truck customers aren’t all that interested in electric trucks. Even Ford’s hybrid F150 will be marketed as a mobile power source for equipment/tools than a fuel saver. Though that may change as they get closer to delivering it.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 12:52

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How about we get Toyota diesels in their trucks and SUVs, I got amazing mileage in one in Australia. No way I’m going out into the wilderness in an electric pickup, one way trip! Unless they put a generator on board like the Fisker, that seems smart to me.

diplodicus > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/02/2018 at 12:57

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Wouldn’t you want to keep the motors inboard to reduce unsprung weight?

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > diplodicus 07/02/2018 at 13:16

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I mis-wrote that. Yes, you’re correct. I was thinking the drive motors would be outboard from the generator. That is, none of the weight/delicate parts/ complexity of a traditional hybrid drive system and saves you from needing transfer cases.

Shift24 > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 13:27

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Easy, no one w ant s it or the price increase associated with the batteries. Plus there is still a lot of uncertainty with the longevity of the Batteries. Lets put it this way the biggest thing to happen to trucks 20 or so years was Fords Ecoboost V6. A V6 as the main option was unheard of and why Ford spent Millions on R&D and not calling it a turbo V6.

People even now have the mentality that Trucks need to be torque monsters (i.e. popularity of Diesel now in trucks). And the easiest and cheapest way to get torque? Low reeving V8. (I guarantee Ford is spending at least $500 to 1000 more on each v6 than Dodge or GM but thats for another time). These trucks are profit monsters, even told by a Colorado engineer “The Mid size might pay for my bonus at years end but the Full size ensures everyone’s paycheck ”.

So my point is profit is the name of the game. The cheaper the truck cost, the more they can make. Adding batteries will drive up cost and make the trucks more expensive, and for ether the consumer or manufacturer.  

Thats not to say they haven’t tried or continue trying. GM tried a Hybrid system in the GMT900 and FCA is currently trying with their new system on the RAM. But the GMT900 Hybrid didnt last long (this also included Tahoe s and Yukon s) and history has a way of repeating its self.

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/02/2018 at 13:41

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Wrong wording on my end. I meant a turbo 4 would have more torque than an n/a counterpart but you don’t get it down low. The electric motors would compensate by providing missing instant torque down low. In a theoretical world.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 07/02/2018 at 13:48

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But if you’re going there, why not simply forget about directly driving the wheels with the engine? You could set up an engine/generator system with a smaller buffer battery that would give you every benefit of a pure diesel-electric with no downsides. You could even sit in stop-and-go traffic with it and it would be highly energy efficient.

M.T. Blake > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/02/2018 at 17:41

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Instant torque all the way to the super charger station. If electric is the hare, I’d rather be the tortoise. 

they-will-know-my-velocity > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/04/2018 at 17:32

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You might well be onto something. Like a buggy build would probably allow you to have easy access to components as long as you use an existing kit with a VIN or purchase one to convert...I would love to see an electric sand rail.